Wednesday, February 24, 2010

People suck

I am so irritated my eyeballs hurt.

My poor sister is being attacked on her own blog for contributing to the evil adoption system in the world.

I understand the position that some shady things go on in the background of a lot of adoptions. That seems to be the main complaint of these people. Evidently, the only proper response is for no one to ever adopt, so they do not accidently encourage that sort of behavior. Forget those children who need homes for legitimate reasons, like death of a parent, or any other number of things. They should be left to rot in an orphanage or an over-taxed foster care system, for the principle of the matter.


One wackaloon believes she has violated God's will by adopting. The others hold her responsible for all the evils of the international adoption system. She has been called delusional, among many other things. A reasonable point they make is that adopted people will always feel a loss for having been put up for adoption, and unless you are adopted, you cannot know that. No one has disputed that point--least of all Mandy--so why she should be hammered for trying to give a good life to her adopted children is beyond me. She never said it erased such a thing, she just believes her kids are more than one event, and that they, like everyone else in the world, will be a product of ALL their experiences. Not just that one single experience

Of course, some/many of these people post anonymously, which is so cowardly. But why not be a coward when you are also a professional victim.

I don't understand the need to have children, because I don't have that drive. But I have seen what they and many friends have gone through because it was not possible to carry their own children. It is a harrowing experience that breaks a lot of people. To get through it to be able to add children to their lives and then be subject to this misplaced rage completely bamboozles me.

What is wrong with people?

32 comments:

Holly said...

you know better than to actually ask me that, right? I commented on the blog so I'm off to moderate comments on my own for a day or two.

Holly said...

"I understand the position that some shady things go on in the background of a lot of adoptions"

right. Because shady things don't ever go on .anywhere. other than in the background of adoptions right? Like oh......police stations. Or car dealerships. Or physicians offices. Or prisons...

oh wait. I made my point. Sorry.

These people need to get over it already. I wonder how their adoptive parents feel when they hear the kid(s) flaunt their adoptive status like a martyrs cape.

3 Men and a Lady said...

That's awful! Who's to say what another family should or shouldn't do? I think adoption is great and although it's not for me, I am very supportive of others that have that desire. There are so many kids who need parents that really want and can care for them. I hope her blog assholes go away.

EmmaP said...

this is the 2nd adoptive parent i know that this has happened to. ugh. outrageous! i am so sorry for your sis! with my other friend, some "follower" didn't like that she was adopting and that even more so, she dared to be so excited about the baby she posted pics of him on her blog! they called the agency (don't know how they found out) and tried to convice the agency she was exploiting the baby. what a fiasco! luckily -- after much smoothing over the agency is still going through with it.

don't people have better things to do???

City girl turned Country Girl said...

Well I will be LOUD and PROUD to say that I think she's done an AWESOME thing!!! Seriously?! People are crazy...Post anonymously!! I do not know what your sis's blog is but you can tell her this reader of yours thinks she ROCKS!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Good Grief! People are beginning to make me SICK.

IMPORTANT "CAUSES"----- no just trouble makers who don't know what else to do with themselves or their time. Plus they want sympathy and make other people as miserable as they are! ! ! !

Carol

Sallyanne said...

I heard that they were upset she was posting pictures of the adoptling sitting on the potty.
In this day of pedophilia on the internet, why would anyone want to expose their kids like that?
Even you have to agree that the internet is not a safe place to post pictures of children sitting on the potty.
It's dangerous but most importantly, it is disrespectful to the child.
Would you want your mom posting pictures of you sitting on the potty on the internet for all the world to see?
Think about it.

Sallyanne said...

And EmmaP is not giving you the whole story on the other case. That child is three years old and in foster care. The Person in question had been told not to broadcast anything about this child. Instead, she plastered the poor kid's face all over her blog and posted phone conversations with the child on YouTube. She also revealed the name and phone number of the child's foster parent on the video that was open to the public.
The child had not even been placed with her and she was violating his confidentiality and exposing him to harm from predators.
Illegal, unethical, uncool.
Personally, I'm glad someone reported her.
Adoption is great when everyone follows the rules, EmmaP's example did not do this. She put that child in harm's way and she hasn't even adopted him.

Jocelyn said...

people suck so bad!
If adoption is right for you then thats no ones business except yours.

I hate other people so much sometimes. ugh...

Paige said...

SallyAnne--the way I read it, they were taking Amanda to task for what was on someone else's blog. Not hers. She is not in charge of someone else's blog.

And second--I work with pedophiles. I know quite a lot about how they operate, think, and what triggers them. I can tell you most emphatically that a picture of a little kid on a potty seat contributes to pedophilia in such a miniscule amount if at all that it cannot be measured. Those pictures on the other blog are sweet. They are not pornogoraphy or bait for a pedophile in any way.

And I would not care a bit if there were similar pics of me at that age floating around--there probably are. I can assure you that there are photos of me as a child that have been published in magazines all over the world that are far more embarrassing. I do not care a bit because I am a grown woman who does not live in fear. I was taught not to by the same people that raised Amanda.

Tranae said...

I read some of the blogs of those that commented on Amandas site. They are mentally ill. It was quite sad to read what miserable human beings they are and how they spend every waking hour wallowing in their unhappiness and looking for ways to make everyone they come in contact with feel the same. The obvious jealousy that these individuals harbor around the well adjusted population is scary. Reminds me why the world is the way it is.

Kelsey said...

There you go again with that "professional victim" phrase of yours again...*sighs*

But why not be a coward when you are also a professional victim.
Way to look down on us. Also, keep in mind that by saying this, you are in a sense also looking down on the very children whom your sister adopted.

Sallyanne said...

But Paige, that is *you* talking. I'm glad for you that you have the kind of character that can tolerate media attention but a lot of people are not built that way.
Some of the pictures in question had full nudity. What's cute to one is child porn to another. These pictures can be grabbed and used on other sites. As a parent, I would not want to risk that or put my child in that kind of position. If you are in favor of child exploitation, then more power to you.
Honestly, I just don't understand why any good parent would want to deliberately put their child at risk on the internet.
I wish the internet was the safe and cozy place that people like to pretend it is but it just isn't.

Sallyanne said...

And BTW I do not live my life in fear nor do I raise my children to do so. I have raised them to be cyber conscious and realize that the internet is not a safe place.

Real life can be very safe...the internet is not safe at all.
But don't take my word for it.
Here is an excellent example of why one should be careful:
http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2008/05/08/why-i-password-protect-pictures/

And this site is good too:
http://www.commonsensemedia.org/

Christina said...

"They are mentally ill."

I seriously just vomited in my mouth reading that. No. I am NOT mentally ill..nor are any of the other people who commented.

I will proudly say that I was the one who brought up the pictures of the child sitting on the potty, and standing up at the window naked.

All I said to your sister was to possibly contact her friend and see if she couldn't take those pictures down. As an adopted child of a pedophile, I can tell you that it made me sick to see those pictures on the internet for all to see.

I'm a mother as well..and while I will relish the day that I can tease my kids with the "blackmail" photos of them in embarassing poses, I'd NEVER think that posting pictures of them learning how to control their bowels and bladders on such a public forum.

Your sister commented on my blog this morning..and seems to want to understand things from our point of view..and I'm hopeful that can happen. As I commented back though..I can't really have a complete discussion when I am not privy anymore to the posts on her blog.

Anonymous said...

Well done, Paige.

mommymae said...

as i said to mandy, people will attack others if they are hurt. i saw this as a teacher, and i see it on the internet, by people who call themselves adults.

Paige said...

True Mommymae--but to inflict pain on someone else because you are feeling it does not help anything--it simply perpetuates it.

Paige said...

Kelsey as I said before--I am not speaking to a group of people when I call these commentors "professional victims". There is a difference between a person who has been victimized in some way and one who has made their life's work extolling the virtues of being wronged. I beg you to find me one person who has not been victimized in some way or another. I certainly have been. Amanda has been, I am sure you have. But the difference between Amanda and I and you, is that we do not make that our only identity, and use it to attack other people. A professional victim does. I will continue using that phrase until I find one that fits better.

I am talking to YOU. Not an "US". Not a "THEM" or a "WE". Not someone who is not involved. That you cannot comprehend the difference should not suprise me, since you seem to lump Amanda into a larger group and seek to penalize her for the sins of other people. Can you not really see that you are doing that?

She has never sought to justify any of the bad things that happen in the adoption world. She has not been a part of that. She is doing GOOD things as her part of it--in fact, she is doing virtually everything suggested to her and has all along. The only thing she is guilty of is adopting at all--and that some people believe no one should ever adopt does not make that a right answer. It is simply one answer, and one she is and was free to reject.

She has not sought you out to chastise you for not doing things her way, why should you?

Paige said...

SallyAnne--child porn is not a matter of opinion. It has very specific requirements. That you feel like you see it, does not mean that you do.

The photos in question do not rise to the level of child porn. Go ahead, ask me to prove it. I would be happy to. They are simply photos, and would not even meet the much lower standard of obscenity. If you do not believe me, ask the US Supreme Court--unless of course, you know more about it than it does.

Paige said...

To those who are so upset about the pictures--why don't you take it up with the person who you are angry with? Again, not Amanda.

Or is that not a distinction that matters to you.

Yes the internet is a dangerous place. But I saw nowhere in those photos an invitation to visit this child on her potty seat, at a time when no one would be with her, with a Google map attached.

If you do not want photos of your children like that posted on the internet, then by all means--do not do it. The free expression of another mother should not be hamstrung by your opinion. Suer, you are free to state it--but the rest of us are free to tell you that you lose all credibility when you are so extremem as to be absurd

Kelsey said...

"Amanda has been, I am sure you have. But the difference between Amanda and I and you, is that we do not make that our only identity, and use it to attack other people. A professional victim does. I will continue using that phrase until I find one that fits better." I'm not using it as a weapon with which to attack other people--I'm just trying to get other people to see the psychological aspect of adoption that adoptees have to deal with. No, I don't let that early trauma of my life control my life--in fact, I've just started thinking about it and researching the whole psychological trauma that comes up when a mother is separated from her baby. I've come "out of the fog", as is a popular phrase, but just because I'm "in the clear" doesn't mean I'm going to concentrate on that fact every second of the day.

Shelley said...

You can't reason with unreasonable people. It's just not gonna happen. I would lump the anti-adoption people with the PETA nut jobs.

The strength of the internet (ability to reach the masses) is also the weakness of the internet (reaching the wack-a-loons).

The Wife said...

This is why I stick with dogs.

Holly said...

Kelsey wrote: Way to look down on us

Me: Professional victim statement.

Sallyanne posted a link to a blog that now password protects her photos.

The blog owner says on her site that she feels what happened to her was pretty uncommon. Besides which, this is about adoption, not child porn so let it go.

And as for the child who was not even placed and dudette violated the terms of her agreement. Take.that.up.there.

Christina said: As I commented back though..I can't really have a complete discussion when I am not privy anymore to the posts on her blog.

Me: start the conversation on your own blog then and continue it there. I wouldn't let you have access to my blog either if you had treated me the way you did Mandy. You are, at the least, a righteous jerk who thinks that she should be able to tell others how to live.

Kelsey wrote: I'm just trying to get other people to see the psychological aspect of adoption that adoptees have to deal with.

no you aren't. You want everyone to agree with you and pat you on the back for pointing it out. If you were just trying to make a point you would not be make it over and over again.

Kelsey said: but just because I'm "in the clear" doesn't mean I'm going to concentrate on that fact every second of the day.

Perhaps not every second but you have absolutely eaten up a tremendous amount of time with it in the past 24 hours. Due to that bit of work I'm inclined to disbelieve that it doesn't feature prominently in your life.

And Kelsey, I went to that link. Even assuming that there is some sort of trauma for an adopted child, there is nothing to say that if the child had stayed with the bio parent(s) it would have been better.

You know Christina and Kelsey remind me of my ex husband. When he decided to argue with me and I wanted to just quit, he would follow me around the house pounding his point of view. Kelsey (who despite the fact that there is a name attached is .still. anonymous) and Christina just could not leave this be. The two of them are being passive aggressive with this.

get over yourselves already.

Kelsey said...

Eh, fine...I'll stop with my point. I didn't expect a pat on the back, though. And I'm sorry I'm *anonymous* but I have yet to form my own blog here--I'm fine with LiveJournal at the moment.

Paige said...

Kelsey, I hope you do well with your journey and get happy. I hope as you work your way through it, you find that you are more than the single-faceted person that many of these commenters are portraying themselves to be. I really do mean it, good luck.

Your point was that adoptees have suffered a serious blow by being put up for adoption. That is a good point. But it is not a new one, and it is not an unknown one. Since Amanda, and other adoptive parents, cannot go back in time and arrange so they can truly know what it is like to be an adoptee, the only thing they can do is their best to understand their child, be alert to his or her needs (all of them, not just the ones dealing with that one issue), and do the best job they can with it.

I know Amanda will do that.
I see it every day. She is not the one you need to tell. Her friends and family who have gone through this with her are not the ones you need to tell. We know too.

Good luck figuring things out.

And you can have a google ID without a blog--and you can put your email address in your profile so that a person can reply directly to your comments instead of having to post back in the comment section. Its easy

Kelsey said...

I'm glad Amanda is aware of the facts--there are some adoptive parents out there who refuse to face those facts. Good for Amanda and her family, though. Good luck to her and her children, too...:-).

Rachelle L said...

Hi Paige! I love your blog btw but am really frustrated that people are critizing Amanda. My husband went to school with Ed and I like to keep up with everyone even though I dont comment that often. I should to you also but havent and will from now on.I met amanda at WP and had so much fun with her. I met you at her wedding and Ted has been able to meet up with Ed at buiness trips to houston. I havent seen your sister since their wedding but I know the hard journey she is going through is tough. Our military exp. was nothing like theirs. I cant get to her blog maybe she doesnt want me to see it but wanted to post something to the awful person that is attacking her. Children are a blessing and it takes great parents biological or not to care for a child. I hope to see them again soon. Just let her know that Ted and I are praying for Crews to come home soon. Would love for our children to meet theirs. Your horses and animals are beautiful. Are you coming to lex. Ky for the equastions? Also the mansleeping blog is hysterical but I think they are starting to make stuff up but I dont know, its still funny! I hate that she is being attacked and she is just enjoying the moment when he is able to be in their arms! Thanks
Rachelle Lanhame@yahoo.com

Sallyanne said...

"The free expression of another mother should not be hamstrung by your opinion. Suer, you are free to state it--but the rest of us are free to tell you that you lose all credibility when you are so extremem as to be absurd"

But the comments are open. If I find the content offensive and the comments open than I have the right to comment.
Just the thought of some creepy stranger capturing a picture of my child and doing things with it sends shivers down my spine. I personally would never put my children in that kind of position. It's funny that exploiting minors is a *mother's choice of expression* in your world.
I'm glad I don't live there.

And BTW, do you know how absolutely easy it is to find a person's address on the internet these days, especially a person with a blog? You don't need a google map, you just need someone who is savvy with google.
The internet is not safe. that is not an extremist position, it is the truth.
Regardless, these are MINOR children who deserve to have a choice in who sees them on the potty and half nude in a swimming pool.
How you could support this kind of behavior is beyond me but that's really ok as I have no plans of being your friend in real life. You've made it clear that you are not my type of pal.
Like I said before, if you want to support child exploitation, you are welcome to it and until you close down comments, I have the right to disagree.
Have a lovely day.

Paige said...

Sally Anne--let me be honest with you. I allow you to post because you do not scare me. I am more than willing to listen to anything you say, because I am more than confident that you will not shock me. You will not shock me with news, or an original thought, or a persuasive argument. But still I listen, just in case. I am open to new information--I just have not seen any of that from you. I won't ignore it should you bring some, I promise you that.

That is why my comments are open--and just FYI--they are not. I have to approve them all. I approve yours because I am not threatened by you.

I noticed you declined my offer to explain child porn to you. I assume you will also decline my offer to explain child exploitation as well. That is too bad, because you are equally misinformed about its meaning.

I get that you are emotionally involved with your points. What you do not get is that an argument made on emotion and not fact and reason is not particularly effective. It may get attention at first, but it cannot stay the course.

To address your most recent comment: yo;u say it creeps you to think of a stranger taking and posting photos of your child. It should. Show me where that has happened in any of the discussion we have had? It has not.

You must have a very smug sense of security, if your comments are to be indicative. You are right--a name, an address, an identity are not hard to find on the internet. But guess what--it is not hard to find any way. As a person who is entirely too aware of pedophiles and how they work, I know that
only a tiny amount of improper contact results from stranger situations--I can provide you with statistics down to the hundredth to prove that.

Finally, I can assure you that you are no more glad than I that we do not live in the same world.

And do not think your choice to post under a name but with no actual identification or contact information has escaped notice. It has not. You will notice that I back up every single statement I make with a myriad of ways to identify me. I do that because I stand by what I say. Where is your commitment?

Holly said...

Sallyanne the anonymous blogger wrote:

Just the thought of some creepy stranger capturing a picture of my child and doing things with it sends shivers down my spine. I personally would never put my children in that kind of position.

You should be creeped out by that but if you live in fear your whole life, you aren't going to get much enjoyment out of living. In addition, the people who pick up photos off the internet *most* of the time, do not use them for nefarious purposes. Most people see them just like the picture.

Sa:It's funny that exploiting minors is a *mother's choice of expression* in your world.
I'm glad I don't live there.

Let me help you out here:
ex·ploi·ta·tion:
–noun
1.use or utilization, esp. for profit: the exploitation of newly discovered oil fields.
2.selfish utilization: He got ahead through the exploitation of his friends.
3.the combined, often varied, use of public-relations and advertising techniques to promote a person, movie, product, etc.

What that mother did was put up a picture in a private place for private viewing. It's not exploitation. Could .others. exploit it? Sure but .she. did not.

As for the internet being dangerous, of course it is. So is driving to work, so are many hobbies and so are many types of lucrative employment. Life is dangerous, you cannot go around being unawares, but you need not be such a flippin' alarmist either.

and I will repeat this one more time.

this was not Mandy and it was not her child and not her doing.

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