Tuesday, October 7, 2008

It is not just mine that are aging

Smart Little Lena at 29 is finally giving up on breeding--at least naturally. Well not naturally as he never does that, but It has been recommended that he not be collected any more, as the risk of heart attack is way up there now.

Today, on allaboutcutting.com, the following info was provided about the clones. Some of this has been paraphrased to make it more palatable

SMART LITTLE LENA CLONES:

Manion said that they had collected semen on the five clones to see which of them were fertile. Three were extremely fertile; however, the other two were not. Also, the two that were the least fertile were the least desirable individuals. He said they collected the two least-fertile clones again a month later. After the first collection, the semen looked pretty good, the second was marginal and the third – nothing. Also the two undesirable clones at Performance Equine were not doing good.

The three nice clones have been at Phil Rapp’s facility since August, being gentled and saddled.
Rapp said that they were exceptional colts; however, one was better than the other two, but he could see Smart Little Lena in all three of them. He said they get them out and brush them and work with them five or six days a week, but they have not ridden them. “We just exercise and groom them.”

Rapp felt they had some value as breeding horses if they didn’t charge a huge fee. He thought they could get 20-25 paying mares to them even though they would only be DNA-registered.
Chatham said they were going to send registration applications on the clones to the AQHA just in case something happened down the road where they could be AQHA registered.

Manion said that if they are not registered their only value was as show horses – so they needed to be trained. Phil has agreed to train them for $3,600 per month if the Syndicate members agree, but they needed to be started soon. If they were, Phil felt that by March he would know if they were going to be worth going on with. If even one turned out great, it could have significant value – even if it had no value as a breeding horse.

Rapp also suggested that if they didn’t want to have all three clones trained, he could train the best-looking one and they could sell the other two overseas and see if a foreign country’s registration association might accept them for registration. Joe Hayes suggested that Brazil might be the best market.

Manion said they did a survey regarding the two least-desirable clones and there were 25 “yes” and 1 “no” to either donate the clones or put them down. Four said to donate, two said put them down and the rest didn’t care.

The survey also asked if they got the three desirable colts registered, should they train them. Five said “yes” and 25 said “no.”

Another question was “If these colts were unable to be registered, should we train them?” There were 23 “yes” and 8 “no.”

Levison said there were 53 partners in the clones and that no one else got in after the original members paid their money. However, some of them haven’t paid what is due. There was only $1,188 in the clone bank account and they owe $28,000 to Performance Equine. Ron Ward said that he had $10,000 in expenses from his clone share so far, meaning that shareholders already could have $530,000 in the clones.

++++++++++++++++++++++

No matter what you think of the cloning process and what should happen with it--that some of these members think that two of the five should be culled suggests there is more at stake her than money. Ultimately in the end though, money may be the undoing of this deal, with people already behind on their financial obligations. That is the horse business though, isn't it?

On a related note, it sounds like a settlement is close on the whole syndicate deal.

What do you all think of the cloning thing? Whether they should be trained and shown? Anything else

8 comments:

Holly said...

I don't understand .why. someone would put that kind of money into a horse that can't be registered, at least today. I get that they are SLL clones, and that should make them valuable, but did the syndicate members not know they could not register these horses?

and what is "not doing well"? Physically? Are the clones not working? Are they not sound? Do they have degenerative issues?

I think that all sound horses should be handled and trained. Training is what makes them marketable even if they are grade.

Paige said...

They knew they could not be registered. Some of the best cutting horses were not able to be registered ever.

They never intended to show them, as they did not want to take away from his legacy--by screwing up on them, for example. They simply wanted access to his DNA forever

I am not sure what they mean by not doing well right now, but two of them have had leg issues, one was parrotmouthed bad, several surgeries were had---I don't know if there are other problems.

I do not know what I think about the training of them--might as well, I think--but they have a lot of value if they never do anything---especially if the produce half as well as he has.

It is so interesting to me

Anonymous said...

Very interesting... Makes you wonder what isn't publically disclosed for the less publically held clones. i.e. Scamper. 1 clone = 1 perfect foal. Somehow, I suspect not. The Scamper clone's first mare was recently checked in foal.

I'm still stuck on how cheap that one cloned filly sold for at auction.. $12k or $14k or something. Clearly not everyone is as OK with it as I am...

MicBel QH said...

parrotmouted? Interesting... wonder what other problems they are seeing in the clones.

I think they should at least ride them, but beyond that I'm not sure if they should show them myself because there is a risk to loose value if they do not perform well. As far as registrations, they have DNA registry (what does that mean exactly anyway, DNA parentage verified? or is there a real DNA registry?).

Paige said...

I think there was something more to that Serendipity clone deal than we will know--and I saw her sell, so I guess maybe the info was in the Xrays? She supposedly is on target for the 09 show---we will see then I guess.

Several of the other cutting clones have gone to shit too though--I guess you get to keep that info quiet when you are not always in the courthouse like the SLL and clone syndicates are

Paige said...

Parrot mouth is not at all uncommon in SLL lines--so maybe it is no wonder that it has shown up in a clone? Then again, a lot of the new research is suggesting that it is not purely hereditary either---I think there is clearly a genetic component though. Maybe it is like cribbing--when the stars align right, those predisposed to it will do it.

There are also leg problems in the two clones.

And yep, there is a DNA registry--it started when you could only register one baby per mare per year. It was a way to track genetics. And because it was so expensive to do ET then, only really good mares had more than one baby per year--so the DNA registry was chock full of high end stock.

Then when AQHA changed the rules, things changed. For example, Wild Thing was only DNA registered...when they registered him in AQHA, they were so used to calling him Wild Thing DNA, they named him that with AQHA!

With these horses, people care first and foremost about winning money--and when they horse does it, being only DNA registered did not hurt its value. See eg Ruby Tuesday DNA

MicBel QH said...

I did find the DNA Registry Address and contact info but no website. Seems a little odd they wouldn't have a website but I didn't find one.

Interesting about the clones, I also wonder how the Mitochondrial DNA changes the outcome if any.

I read where the Serendipity clone has 2 foals due in 09.

Paige said...

the DNA registry has pretty much petered out since they changed the multiple foal rule--although I am sure it is still being used, since it is considered a venue for the SLL clones

I believe the serendipity clone is prepping for the 09 futurity as well. So is the Tap O Lena I think

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